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breeden
ursulav

Vice and the Dishes

So I was wadding up newspaper to pack dishes.

The last time we moved, half our stuff was packed with racing forms, due to a neighbor's habit of playin' the horsies, losing, and leaving large stacks of forms in the recycling bin. And that was fine by me.

This time I just picked up a random stack of free publications at the supermarket, which means that the dishes are packed in restaraunt reviews and personal ads advertising all manner of disturbing acronyms, and a few old copies of "Wired."

And then there were these things.

Dish in box. Eyes on dish. Hand over newspapers. Grope for newspaper. Glance over at newspaper--hey, are those boobs?

Certain things captivate the human eye, and the human breast is one of 'em, even if you're female and there are little white squares over the nipples. Dishes forgotten, I picked up the newspaper, and read, jaw hanging open, "Take charge of your life with breast augmentation! This woman speaks her mind! She takes second fiddle to no one! That's why she chose breast surgery!" A smiling doctor wearing a brightly colored fez, advertising himself as "an artist in the truest sense of the word," offered to turn any breast into one of an array of before-and-after shots.

James wandered in, possibly attracted by my "Gnrrrghff!" noises, looked over my shoulder, said "Oh, yeah, I know, those jackals preying on those poor women," and wandered out again while I was still making incoherent noises about the after shots. I realize that gravity is slowly taking its toll on my squishier anatomy, but square boobs with long vertical red scars do not strike me as improvement.

Still, it pads a dish nicely. Perhaps I should simply resign myself that my dishes will always be packed in an expression of human vice.


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Be grateful you didn't grab the random "publications" found on every street corner in downtown Las Vegas.

Cubic boobs are the tamest of what you'll find in those flyers from various "escort" services, titty bars and even the legal brothels in Pahrump.

As a card carrying charter member of the Y chromosome conspiracy, I am totally amazed and befuddled as to how anyone can find pneumatic hooters to be at all attractive or sexy and why women seem so vulnerable to pegging their sense of self worth on the size of their breasts.

Is this a US cultural phenomina or do native women living in the Amazon rain forest dream of bigger tata's too?

So it goes...

CYa!
Mako
Au Natural If You Please Zzyzxian

As a card carrying charter member of the Y chromosome conspiracy, I am totally amazed and befuddled as to how anyone can find pneumatic hooters to be at all attractive or sexy and why women seem so vulnerable to pegging their sense of self worth on the size of their breasts.

Because there don't seem to be enough males who think like you do? As social creatures, our self-worth is dependent at least to some extent on the opinions of our fellows. That is to say, there'd be no point in considering one's self worthy if no one else agreed. X) Unless, of course, one could happily live deluded and alone.

Is this a US cultural phenomina or do native women living in the Amazon rain forest dream of bigger tata's too?

Most likely the former. Living where there are no bras to be had and one routinely performs strenuous tasks in which a large (or even average) bust would almost certainly get in the way would not make me eager to have breasts at all.

Because there don't seem to be enough males who think like you do?

I used "males" because I have absolutely no idea how big lesbian and bisexual women generally desire their partners' breasts to be. As far as most heterosexual American men go, I'm under the distinct impression that anything under C is considered inadequate.

I used "males" because I have absolutely no idea how big lesbian and bisexual women generally desire their partners' breasts to be.

Ya know, that's a darn good question, and it's one that I shall certainly not be asking! :)

As far as most heterosexual American men go, I'm under the distinct impression that anything under C is considered inadequate.

My only personal requirement is that a lady have a cup size of any size as there are more than a few lady's who aren't out here in Las Vegas. One should be cautious in certain venues, as the book and it's cover can be distinctly different...

CYa!
Mako


My only personal requirement is that a lady have a cup size of any size as there are more than a few lady's who aren't out here in Las Vegas. One should be cautious in certain venues, as the book and it's cover can be distinctly different...

I figure it only makes sense not to hold a standard for breast size in a parter. You'll have many more ladies to choose from that way! ;D However, I doubt that the presence or lack thereof of breasts of any size would be a reliable indicator of one's sex. There are biological women who are completely devoid of fatty tissue in the chest area and men who have breast implants for various reasons or even real breasts that were hormonally grown. The surest indicator naturally lies further south and all of us are potentially at risk for being fooled or mistaken (unless we're rude/brazen enough to do the Crocodile Dundee crotch-grab XD). I can certainly appreciate that the risk is higher in LV--hey, the town I grew up in!--though! It's just a shame that transvestites and transsexuals are often forced to be dishonest out of fear.

I figure it only makes sense not to hold a standard for breast size in a partner. You'll have many more ladies to choose from that way! ;D

Agreed, though choosing a lady who is willing to reciprocate in your choice is a far more convoluted matter unfortunately. :)

There are biological women who are completely devoid of fatty tissue in the chest area and men who have breast implants for various reasons or even real breasts that were hormonally grown.

I can't recall meeting a woman who truly has no breasts as a result of genetics, but it's certainly quite believable and frankly I don't think that would matter one whit to me. I do my best to speak to the eyes not the boobs.

As to men that take hormones, yes I have seen them, often they are playing female roles in stage plays and reviews. I first learned of them while traveling in Thailand many years ago when I was in the Navy. We trundle off to on liberty to go see a stage review show with lots of pretty Thai dancers and performers.

I had no idea whatsoever there wasn't a woman on the stage until one of my shipmates told me all the women on the stage weren't. That's one heck of a way to loose some innocence there :)

I have thought of one case however where plastic boobs are perfectly acceptable to me and that is for cancer survivors and similar reconstructive situations. Those situations make very good sense and I would encourage anyone in that situation to handle it as she sees fit.

The surest indicator naturally lies further south and all of us are potentially at risk for being fooled or mistaken (unless we're rude/brazen enough to do the Crocodile Dundee crotch-grab XD).

Ha! =:-D Indeed, there is no doubt as to that :)

You are from Vegas?! Outstanding!! We should compare notes for certain :)

I think it would perhaps be appropriate to move this conversation from Ursula's overflowing blog to one of our own to spare both her and her patient readership more further off topic ramblings. If you are still interested in carrying on with this discussion, please let me know where you desire to move it to and we'll make it happen.

CYa!
Mako

I think it would perhaps be appropriate to move this conversation from Ursula's overflowing blog to one of our own

Aww, darn. I was enjoying it. :)

I was thinking that the one thing I like least about breast lifts/augmentation is that firm breasts are ... well ... firm. I think they feel better when they're softer and squishier. And that's all the TMI I'll put down for this comment. *^_^*

Well thank you :)

As I haven't heard from Wolphyn, I'd be be happy to discuss this rather different topic in your LJ - if you wish. Let me know...

CYa!
Mako

Being a lady is a state of mind - genitals aren't the whole of it by any means. Some transgender women (CDs and TSs alike) are not, but some of us are just ladies who happen to have the wrong genitals. The mind driving the body matters far more than what's under the panties. Just think of it as a strap-on we can't take off. *grin*

I might be biased, of course, because I'm femmy enough that friends who I was out to thought I could pass as a skinny, flat woman before starting hormones; people who know me online first are usually quite shocked and disbelieving when they find out, because I just tend to read as female in the absence of cues like still needing to shave. The mechanics may be a little different with me, but it's still climbing into bed with a lady, not a gentleman. And it'd be much the same if I was a cross-dresser out in girl mode, rather than a transsexual... there just wouldn't be boobs to play with after the bra came off.

(Sorry to anonymously snark up two entries in a row with the shemale point of view, Ursula! I've just been thinking about gender too much again, I guess. Plus it kinda came up in two seperate threads from wholly unrelated people.)

*wave hand* The point of view is welcome, and the anonymity quite understandable given the circumstances.

Being a lady is a state of mind

Now that I would certainly agree with. And if I had been somehow born into the 'wrong' body, I'd probably go through a whole lot to change it to the one that feels right.

But (if you don't mind me asking...you seemed willing to talk) how (or rather, in what way) do you *know* you're a woman?
I mean, I know that I just know and I guess it works much the same way for everybody, but I've never been able to decide if my gender identity is a little 0/1 switch in the back of the head or if the whole thing works like an old-fashioned set of scales with 'male' attributes on one side and 'female' attributes on the other. Since you've probably had to think about it more seriously than most other people, I was wondering if you had any insight...

Sorry if it's an offensive question, I don't mean it to be: I'm curious yet harmless. And since turnabout's fair play, I'm an XX woman and quite sure I'm a woman in spite of stereotypically male interests (probably social) and a marked tendency to process information like a man (biological?).

Because there don't seem to be enough males who think like you do?

If that's true, it's a pretty sad state of affairs :(

As social creatures, our self-worth is dependent at least to some extent on the opinions of our fellows. That is to say, there'd be no point in considering one's self worthy if no one else agreed. X) Unless, of course, one could happily live deluded and alone.

I'll leave that one to the sociologists out there in electric land, though it does seem reasonable. Perhaps I'm a bit more independent of social sheep-think?

Regardless, I just don't like plastic boobs and excessive makeup on women or toupes' on bald men and other faux "beauty aids". As Frank Zappa said You are what you is and I for one would much rather get to know you, not your plastic surgeon enhanced vanities.

Apologies to anyone reading this that has boosted their bosom that is offended by this, but that's my take on the whole issue.

Most likely the former. Living where there are no bras to be had and one routinely performs strenuous tasks in which a large (or even average) bust would almost certainly get in the way would not make me eager to have breasts at all.

That is a practical view, it makes sense actually, good thinking there.

Thanks for the dialog, it's good to think things through, even if the topic you're thinking on is a bit esoteric :-)

CYa!
Mako

If that's true, it's a pretty sad state of affairs :(

I couldn't tell you how much of it may simply have been due to peer pressure (the need to be 'one of the guys' by mimicking the alpha male's behavior), but I have been snubbed (and worse) time and time again for being 'flat'. Maybe I was merely unlucky, but I would imagine that for every guy rude enough to say it to my face without any provocation whatsoever, there must have been more making such remarks behind my back.

I'll leave that one to the sociologists out there in electric land, though it does seem reasonable. Perhaps I'm a bit more independent of social sheep-think?

Having a sense of self-worth that is independent from the input of others is an admirable thing, but I'm not sure that the average person cares so little about what their peers think that society can't affect the way (s)he views his- or herself. The effect of peer opinion on self-image is a major driving force in our economy with regards to marketing, after all. Is that sheep-think? Yes, but just remember that the sheep far outnumber the independent thinkers. The point I want to impress is that not everyone has the healthy sense of independence that you seem to, and some of us are injured very badly by not having the hope of a snowflake in a frying pan of measuring up even just to what society would consider the bare minimum of acceptability. I guess I'm just trying to explain why so many women do let their self-esteem ride upon their cup size. I don't consider myself a 'sheep', but then why do I allow myself to be so tormented by societal standards? If I agreed with the standards, then I would be a sheep, but I don't. I just lack the emotional strength to peacefully accept my lot, I suppose.

Regardless, I just don't like plastic boobs and excessive makeup on women or toupes' on bald men and other faux "beauty aids". As Frank Zappa said You are what you is and I for one would much rather get to know you, not your plastic surgeon enhanced vanities.

Apologies to anyone reading this that has boosted their bosom that is offended by this, but that's my take on the whole issue.


You're entitled to your point of view, and, for the record, it's one that I'm rather appreciative of! I would just find it somewhat unfair if a person who insisted on large breasts would blame a formerly underendowed woman for trying to make up surgically for something that she couldn't otherwise help. Personally, though, I think having small breasts is a handy built-in litmus test for finding the right type of person (for me). I wouldn't want someone if the only reason they'd disregard me is that my suppliers of baby sustenance aren't big enough. ;P

but I have been snubbed (and worse) time and time again for being 'flat'.

Slightly off-topic, but I'd like to point out that it works the other way as well. If you had an average bust size, you'd likely be snubbed by almost as many of a different type of person for neglecting to schedule a lobotomy before meeting them. (This happens to me - often courtesy of random idiots - and I'd certainly not mind avoiding the attention.)

I think they look sorta like goldfish eyes. You know.. the big puffed up goldfish eyes.... And they even have the little pupils vaugly off center and... yeah. Not a romantic thought. I don't think anyone's going to be composing poetry using that metaphor.

"Her eyes like deep blue pools, her skin like milk, and the curve of her breast was exactly like the eye of a goldfish"

*cracks up* PRICELESS. Can I quote that?

Quote away, don't mind a bit.

Body mod is body mod.

(Anonymous)
Not quite sure why BIGGER BOOBS = EVIL while GETTING YOUR FACE ALTERED TO LOOK LIKE A TIGER OR LIZARD = Weird-but-OK.

Possibly because of a class-related thing: rural white trailer-park trash dream of bigger boobs, while urban white bohemians dream of Prince Edwards. (or Phillips. Or whatever).

Therefore what the rural white trailer trash want is obviously the product of consumerism and sexism preying upon poor hapless lower-class women (WHO ARE ALSO STUPID AND POOR AND STUPID HAW HAW!), while what the urban white bohemians want is obviously intended to STICK IT TO THE MAN and therefore cool.

Ah well. Despite the hypocrisy and class-prejudice, everyone is still free to be as stupid as they want to be, in whichever way best suits them. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Re: Body mod is body mod.

Actually, I think what's objectionable about the ad is that it's not "Get the figure you've always dreamed of!" or "You can control your appearance!" or even "Become more beautiful/hot/sexy/whatever".

Rather, it's "Take charge of your life" and "This woman speaks her mind" and "takes second fiddle to no one". The implication is that if she didn't get big boobs, she must be a timid, cowering, insecure creature who's always second-best.

Re: Body mod is body mod.

If someone wanted to get a boob job to stick it to the man, more power to 'em.

It's people who are told that they have to get surgery just to be adequate that I feel bad for.

True dat (But den...)

(Anonymous)
...there are worse ways to indulge one's low self-esteem. Compare the cost of a boob-job to that of an unplanned pregancy or an abusive marriage or a drug addiction, and I think the google-eye boobies come out as the least of all evils.

However, I note that various government entities subsidize child-bearing, marriage and drug addiction, while none subsidize boob jobs. Perhaps if women had cheap, easy access to bigger busts, they'd be less likely to indulge in the other forms of behavior which, one must concede, are more personally and socially destructive.

Think that's silly? Hey--it's the same argument used on men: give them the means with which to alter their bodies into more "masculine" form (Basketball, football, backpacking at Philmont, martial arts lessons), and they'll be so happy and self-confident that they'll stop brawling in bars and robbing convenience stores. Everybody buys into this argument regardless of political stripe.

So why not allow women the same chance to improve their self-esteem as men? Granted women do it by just going to a surgeon and spending a few thousand bucks, but hey--men spend a like amount on sports equipment, yet most never achieve the intended effect because it involves a lot of tedious, sweaty, exhausting work. Women have figured out a way to get around that. Which to my mind reaffirms the notion that women are just smarter than men


In conclusion: BOOBS FOR THE MASSES, COMRADES!

(OK, now I'm beginning to sound like lj_debate...)

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