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breeden
ursulav

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Well. Enough moping, back to work. Art waits for no angst.

So, my final statement. Since most of us are sick of politics, go ahead and skip it. It's harsh and not at all conciliatory, and keeps the partisan rift nicely bloody. You've been warned.
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But you all know exactly who he is now, and you voted for him anyway.

I completely and utterly agree with your feelings on this. However, the Bush administration counts on people's ignorance and fear to get elected. (I'm not including those who's moral beliefs jive with Bush's. You can believe the war is wrong, but also that abortion is too, so you go in knowing full well the pluses and minuses of what and whom you're voting for.) But, there are people out there who still fervently believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11, that "gayness" can be cured, and that stem cell research is murder.

I'm not saying that ignorance is an excuse by any means, but what I am saying is, they honestly believe these things and therefor vote feeling Bush has done, and will do the right thing and it's all in our best interest.

What I'm saying is, a lot of these people don't know who he really is or understand the damage he's caused, and that's why they voted for him.

Amen! What I feel exactly. Thanks for being much more eloquent than I can be at the moment.


and I still say Steve Jobs would be a better president.

Pointless rambling from an underage liberal

I'm trying to think of something to say that hasn't been said, and I can't. I have to say I agree with everything you said. But then, I'm a vegetarian, pagan, lesbian, feminist, pro-choice (though anti-abortion--as in, I would never have an abortion and would council against it but believe it should always be the choice of the woman), anti-war, liberal nut who thinks we should legalize prostitution and marijuana and lower the drinking age to eighteen, because if we're old enough to fight for our country, we sure as hell are old enough to get gloriously drunk over being forced to fight for our country! Although I despise alcohol, don't like any loss of control over my brain and so will never do drugs, and think sex needs to be in a relationship to be worth it.

...I think I just wanted to put that all in one place, because I've never really put it in a list like that. Hmm. Sorry to use your lj as my freewriting place.

Luckily, I can escape all blame for Bush because I'm not OLD enough to vote. And I live in the University district of Seattle, so I don't think I ran into more than two people who disagreed with me that Bush is an idiot.


Re: Pointless rambling from an underage liberal

Hey hey! Another underaged liberal in seattle area!

You know very well my background, my issues and my vote. So yeah I'll stand in the sunshine, and say, "Yep, he did it, and you will have every right to be angry at me". If Bush does something you dislikeI'll admit I voted for him. But then the thing that Bush has upset me about, aren't what upset you, and some things that may have upset you, I'll probably gloat and cheer. But in any case, yeah I'll step up and take that responsibility. I got my car scratched for having a Bush/Cheney bumpersticker. I still voted. I despised Clinton fof 8 Years, but I'll admit Kosovo was not badly handled.

Scott

*grin* And that's all we can ask for. (I loved Clinton, but I freely admit that he should have just said "Yeah, I had sex. What's it to you?")

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Ruggels, I'll agree that Kosovo was not badly handled during the Clinton years, but Iraq most assuredly was, and so was Somalia. Say, can we bitchslap everyone who voted for Clinton for that? By Ursula's logic, why yes, we can. If Clinton had done the job right, Bush jr. would've entered the White House to inherit an already on-going occupation in Iraq, and Somalia would've been stabilized.

Ursula, love your art, but the world isn't black and white, red or blue. The presidency isn't about being pro or anti gay, or being pro or anti any number of homeland affairs. It's primarily about foreign policy. For everything else, the president requires the support of the people.

Historically, during wartime, a great majority of people are going to vote based on the war more than on religious or personal concerns. Clearly, more than half of America isn't as disillusioned about the state of the war as you are.

You do not have the privilege, if you are a responsible citizen, of sitting back on your butt, stuffing your hands into your armpits and saying 'Fine! I didn't elect him! It's all your problem now!' If you're pro-choice, you need to stay that way and keep out there. If you're pro-gay-marriage, you need to keep pushing that. When the president starts making noises about doing things at home, you pay attention and you organize counters where necessary. Liberals bitch to high heaven about the Patriot Act, but nine-tenths of it has been repealed or struck down because yes, it did go too far, and our government was not permitted to get away with it. The tenth that remains makes very few changes in the laws that were already extant.

Any president...Any government official...Is a compromise. If you don't see where your favorite candidate has potential to backbite you on issues once in office, you aren't looking closely enough. It is your patriotic duty to ride herd on your local representatives and make yourself heard nationally whenever the government does something you feel is against the best interests of the nation.

Your participation in the government of this nation doesn't end November 3rd unless you want it to, or are ignorant of how your active participation matters.

The whole 'Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy!' and 'You voted for him, so anything he does is your fault!' shouting is right up there with 'Fuck this, I'm going to Canada.' in my book. It's not civil responsibility, it's abrogation of the duties of citizenship.

You have every right to say and believe that, certainly. Howevah, I still believe we're responsible for the actions of those we support--if you agree to a compromise, it doesn't negate that responsibility, you agreed to it, so you're responsible. If I supported Kerry and he did things I don't agree with, I'd take the blame. Sure, Clinton messed up some things. I supported him. It's partially my fault. I'll take responsibility, and if you have any suggestions of ways to act towards fixing the bit with the sex, by all means, post 'em here, and I'll either act on them or admit that I'm letting it go by and am a bad person because of it.

And despite your eloquence, I'm still gonna scream and point every single time Bush does something spectacularly dumb--given that it's Bush, and how often that's likely to happen, you might wanna put your refutations on a hot key now, and we can save some time. *grin*

I 90th the motion to hold people responsible for who they nominate. I may be a Republican, but I didn't vote for Bush. Course, I'm a moderate Republican which are getting to be a rare breed, and Bushy boy is too conservative for me. I didn't even vote for him in 2000.
And I also want to agree with the comment, I can't remember who made it since you get so many and I read most of the threads, that not voting is as bad as making a choice that turns out badly.
I'll keep writing in John McCain until my party gets someone decent to run. Ha!

And that, gang, is my last word on the subject until Bush does something stupid. Tune in next time for nothing to do with politics whatsoever.

You really think he will wait long enough for that? ;-)


He might not, but since I'm avoiding NPR this week until I'm out of my funk, I figure I might be able to avoid hearing about it until then...

You rock, Ursula. Heh, it's quite amusing to see that some Bush-supporters are showing their guilty consciences already.

a vague and fuzzy response

first of all: i voted for kerry, am upset about the past four years and fearful about what the next four years will be like.

somehow i think it's important for people on the left to speak up now, in advance of whatever happens the next four years. i'm not sure what i think we should say, though. and saying we're going to hold bush&his supporters responsible might not be the most appropriate thing to stress.

i'm thinking something along the lines of the "teflon presidency" that reagan was said to have. i imagine that bush&co. will continue to spin events at will. not that i expect any of the following scenarios to happen, but here's how i imagine the bush admin to spin things if they do.
  • economy bad? well, that's because the war on terror is sapping our resources for right now. do you really want to abandon your friends and neighbors in the war on terror, just for a couple extra bucks in your wallet? besides, just wait till iraq gets fixed up and joins the global economic and democratic community. then our investment over there will pay off several times over.
  • violence continuing to escalate in iraq? well, that just shows you the lengths to which our enemy is willing to go to fight freedom. [i.e., bush&co. will continue to say what they've been saying so far]
  • climate change? that's due principally to the unspeakable environmental havoc wreaked by the soviet states in the 20th century.
  • terrorism in the US? how dare you blame bush for that. it's the terrorists' fault, not bush's fault. stop blaming the victim.
and so on and so forth.